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[2017.01.08] DeployStudio build v1.7.6 (checksum, release note).
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#1 2017-01-09 19:34:40

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

So APFS is supposed to come out this year and the winds are saying imaging is done on the Mac and MDM is the future.
Does the Deploystudio team have any thoughts on this? Can DS be turned into a "free" MDM solution or is this the end of the road?

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#2 2017-01-26 17:26:50

jgeorge04
Member
Registered: 2015-05-28

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

I think there will always been room for bare metal imaging.  I use MDM features to deploy software post image, but I always use deploy studio workflows to simply OS installation, first boot options/preferences, AD Bind and profile manager enrollment.

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#3 2017-01-26 17:32:14

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

> jgeorge04 wrote:

> I think there will always been room for bare metal imaging.  I use MDM features to deploy software post image, but I always use deploy studio workflows to simply OS installation, first boot options/preferences, AD Bind and profile manager enrollment.

I don't think you understand. Once APFS is set up it does not allow bare metal imaging. APFS will be the default soon. (iOS 10.3 beta has it as default now)

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#4 2017-01-26 21:49:20

Meat
Member
From: SF CA US
Registered: 2009-02-04

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

Netboot will be a problem?
What about package and file installs, and scripts via DeployStudio Runtime?

Last edited by Meat (2017-01-26 21:51:17)

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#5 2017-01-26 22:11:55

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

> Meat wrote:

> Netboot will be a problem?
What about package and file installs, and scripts via DeployStudio Runtime?

No one knows. All apple has mentioned is you will not be able to bare metal image. Sounds like you will not have access to the file system when the computer is not booted to macOS.

Last edited by Peteo (2017-01-26 22:12:15)

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#6 2017-01-30 15:57:50

mjsanders
Member
From: Schiedam, Netherlands
Registered: 2008-09-02
Website

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

I have read several reports, but what puzzels me is this:

Apple needs a way to put the original OS (software) on the device in the factory.

So some form of bare-metal imaging needs to be functioning.
It is a policy choice if Apple chooses to share this tool with the rest of the world...
I guess that (thunderbolt) target disk imaging will remain possible, regardless if the filesystem is HFS+ or APFS.
If block copies fail, file copies should always work as far as I can tell.

For mass deployments netboot is the only suitable tool, and I am not sure if Apple will support that.

So in any scenario one needs to rethink your tools.
Yes I believe DEP and MDM are the future for new devices, but for re-deployments I hope there is room for more tools.
We will know more when the first betas of 10.13 will arrive (I hope)

Maurits

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#7 2017-01-30 16:49:31

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

> mjsanders wrote:

> I have read several reports, but what puzzels me is this:
>Apple needs a way to put the original OS (software) on the device in the factory.

This is pure speculation but I think the installer is signed per computer. So when you do an internet restore, it signs the installer based on your unique hardware info. Then installer will be allowed to run and install OSX.
But this would mean you always need an internet connection to install the OS. (so it can send the unique signed installer) seems like overkill.

Last edited by Peteo (2017-01-30 16:50:20)

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#8 2017-02-01 15:36:17

jakov
Member
From: Delft, Netherlands
Registered: 2008-04-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

Perhaps Apple installs the original macOS on a Mac the same way as they do now with iOS on an iPhone/iPad. Does anyone know how they do that?

Personally, I think imaging will stay for a while on the Mac...

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#9 2017-02-01 16:07:04

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

> jakov wrote:

> Perhaps Apple installs the original macOS on a Mac the same way as they do now with iOS on an iPhone/iPad. Does anyone know how they do that?

>Personally, I think imaging will stay for a while on the Mac...

Read here:

https://derflounder.wordpress.com/2017/01/10/imaging-will-be-dead-soon-ish/

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#10 2017-02-01 16:08:57

Peteo
Member
Registered: 2012-03-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

Oh yeah read this Tweet (twitter is all the rage these days)

@ygini I bet that system imaging will end with APFS. You should focus on DEP, MDM and loosely coupled directory integration.

— Deploy Studio (@deploystudio) January 8, 2017

Last edited by Peteo (2017-02-01 16:09:06)

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#11 2017-02-01 16:58:00

jakov
Member
From: Delft, Netherlands
Registered: 2008-04-22

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

I know the future is DEP/MDM, but that does not mean imaging will be cut-off directly.

i.e Cron has been declared deprecated and replaced by launchdeamons in OS X 10.4 but it still works!

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#12 2017-02-22 08:45:36

PaintedTurtle
Member
Registered: 2010-06-27

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

I'm hoping that APFS will not mean the end of imaging. But if it really does, then I'd love to see them release, or open source, the source code for deploy studio. It would be great to see exactly how they do some of the magic that they do.

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#13 2017-02-23 09:52:57

mjsanders
Member
From: Schiedam, Netherlands
Registered: 2008-09-02
Website

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

There is surprisingly little magic in DeployStudio, most things are in scripts that you can read (if you know where to find them)
try these paths:
/Applications/Utilities/DeployStudio\ Admin.app/Contents/Frameworks/DSCore.framework/Versions/A/Resources/Tools

all the plugins inside
/Applications/Utilities/DeployStudio Admin.app/Contents/Plugins/

like this for creating images:
/Applications/Utilities/DeployStudio\ Admin.app/Contents/Plugins/DSDiskImageTask.bundle/Contents/Resources/Scripts

for restoring images
/Applications/Utilities/DeployStudio\ Admin.app/Contents/Plugins/DSRestoreTask.bundle/Contents/Resources/Scripts

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#14 2017-03-31 14:36:24

Jkersten
Member
Registered: 2012-07-24

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

I currently manage a fleet of around 500 Macs, all of which are in classrooms, labs or public areas (read: multiple users per machine, none of them admins). Many are in locations with less than optimal networking (100MB ethernet, at best), and the software installed adds up to between 80-120GB (e.g. full Adobe Suite, Matlab, SPSS, etc).

Currently, using DeployStudio running from a custom USB boot key, I can restore a machine from any state -> known good state in < 20 minutes regardless of network conditions, and I can scale this as needed simply by adding more keys (I do have a NetInstall server set up as well, but we have been using it less as software footprints increase and the network has become increasingly congested. We do use munki for patch management and deployment of smaller updates). We have a similar workflow for our Dell Windows systems that uses different tooling but provides basically the same functionality.

If Apple truly breaks this ability and does not provide or at least allow for another option that can deliver similar benefits, I can see us eventually going back to being a Windows only shop, or at least consigning Macs back to limited niche deployments. As things stand now we would need to move to a commercial MDM solution like JAMF ($$$), and even after having spent all that money, we would still not be able to provide the level of service we currently do (20 minute recovery time -> several hour internet restore, followed by several more hours of piecemeal installs over the network by the MDM).

Needless to say I hope these reports turn out to be overblown, or that other alternatives remain available (e.g. continue to allow bare metal restores, even it means reverting to HPFS).

Last edited by Jkersten (2017-03-31 16:10:04)

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#15 2017-04-29 09:26:35

admin
Administrator
Registered: 2007-03-29
Website

Re: APFS, the end of imaging and the future of DS?

WWDC17 is just a few weeks from now. We'll probably get clear directions about devices management with next gen macOS & filesystem.

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